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Sept
9th marks the official release of the collected edition
of SPIDER-MAN: FEVER, the Doctor Strange/Spider-Man team-up
by Brendan McCarthy. For comic fans of a certain frame
of mind, this is a very big deal indeed: McCarthy remains
under-represented on the comicbook shelves compared to
his influence upon the field; the majority of his works
remain out-of-print, in legal limbo or scattered uncollected
in old back issues. Soon, when people ask you, "who is
this fabled man of whom you speak?", you will be able
to give them the ISBN number of an in-print book that'll
blow their minds wide open.
In FEVER, McCarthy finally gets to give his long-professed
love of Steve Ditko's work a full workout, but I took
Brendan to task to explain how there's also still plenty
of his own highly individual themes and motifs going on
in the book. Brendan, like Jack Kirby or his old friend
Grant Morrison, is a real "six impossible ideas before
breakfast" creator, and his profligate imagination filled
what could have been a simple work-for-hire assignment
with highly personal symbolism and intent.
Interview
conducted by Mark
Kardwell
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This
is your first piece for Marvel Comics. What was it like working
for the fabled "House of Ideas"
BMc:
Other than
to cut a few lines of text, they pretty much left me alone to
get on with it, which suited me fine. The editor, Steve Wacker,
suggested that I add The Vulture to the opening sequence, which
worked well. They seem to like the new sparkly kooky-book style:
David Bowie's Ashes to Ashes video, with all that great 'black
sky' video feedback, fused with a Tim Burtonesque surrealism
-- with a light sprinkling of silver-age stardust.
Marvel got a fun and unusual comic -- and I was able to get
the Ditko/Dr. Strange thing out of my system. The FEVER trade
collection also reprints the 60's Spider-Man Annual by Lee and
Ditko that inspired my story. I wish they could have scanned
it directly off the old printed pages to get the period feel.
Still, artistically it's Ditko at his peak. His genius is there
to be enjoyed. Sadly, I am not worthy to sharpen his pencil!
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That
said, another story has started to take shape, probably just starring
Dr. Strange and Clea... I'm interested in different forms of magic
and enchantment, not just that dark Aleister Crowley angle...
Hollywood, for example, is certainly a place of magic: Enchantment
by the manipulation of projected light. The name 'Hollywood' has
a deeper esoteric meaning too. The wood of the Holly tree was
used by Druids to make wands. I think Dr. Strange should get involved
with The Light-masters of Hollywood. There's some great online
articles by Jay Weidner on the esoteric symbols concealed in corporate
Hollywood movies.
I
recently suggested to Vertigo a Sandman/Dr. Strange cross-over
as I think the characters go together well. I'd like to see Mike
Kaluta do a Ditkoesque Dr. Strange too. I think he'd be a total
genius on it. I also suggested to Marvel a Lady Gaga/Dr. Strange
team-up. A comic and video combination on a new song. It's only
a matter of time before the fantastic visual world of Ditko's
Dr. Strange is brought to a wider public.
Curiously
enough, I was over in Hollywood earlier this year mooching about,
and I had a meeting at Disney and the conversation drifted around
to Pixar animating a Dr. Strange movie... Now, wouldn't that be
nice.
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| Ms
Ningirril debuts. Note also the Doc's Lennon-referencing,
bottom left panel |
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I'm
glad I've had the chance to play with the magical and surreal
world of Dr. Strange and do my own take on it. It's interesting
that so few of the "big" writers have tackled the character.
He seems such an obvious choice if you're into magick and psychedelia.
I read a lot on magick when I was a teenager and I've revisited
Crowley, Spare, etc in preparing FEVER. But my interest in that
side of it has waned. All those black-clad 'occulture' hipsters
seem very quaint to me now. People can get attached to certain
phases of life and not make it on to true freedom.
I definitely pitched the series to a younger reader. If I think
back on myself as a teenager, I would have loved a book like
FEVER. A mixture of the silly, surreal, mystical, subversive
and psychedelic. I'm also very happy that the pages will now
be in the right order. It will make quite a bit of difference.
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You've
written before about the Australian Aboriginal influence on
your work, but that was in Swimini Purpose, so I think it's
fair to say not that many people will have seen it. Can you
tell us about the Aboriginal influences on Fever?
BMc:
The Australian
Aborigines are the oldest continuous culture on the planet,
with some anthropologists estimating a possible span of 60,000
to 100,000 years. Geographically isolated down under, they had
developed a sophisticated system of sorcery in which I became
interested. I spent about 5 years living in Australia, working
on that new Mad Max film. It's a very big and strange place
-- vast deserts of bright orange soil. It's like living on a
British outpost on Mars.
The back story of Ms Ningirril, an Aboriginal Sorceress, is
that she was banished from her tribe for borrowing the Elders'
power-objects, things like their Gadachi shoes. So she's hiding
out in the dimensions, on the run from some pretty dangerous
Aborigine 'Clever Men' who are hunting her down. I'd like to
explore this storyline further, in a future series.
Some Aborigine art can be stunningly beautiful. It's some of
the best painting going on in the world right now. I love the
story of Papunya Tula, of how the new indigenous art was kick-started
nearly forty years ago by Geoffrey Bardon, a white schoolteacher
stationed in a remote desert outpost who bought the local Aborigines
paint and canvas. That would make a pretty interesting graphic
novel.
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Spider-Man,
trapped in DocStrange's
bath, yesterday |
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If
someone came up to the counter and asked me, Oi, Mark, what's
Spider-Man: Fever about anyway? I'd say, it's a kick-ass comic
about Spider-Man getting trapped in Doctor Strange's bathtub.
How would you describe it to a prospective borrower from a public
library? Apparently some people also buy books, but eff them.
BMc:
The
story at its simplest: Spider-Man is abducted by a nasty tribe
of spider-demons to a bizarre magical dimension, there to be eaten
alive. Dr. Strange must undertake a perilous quest to rescue his
friend.
Beyond that, it explores the psychological trauma of Spidey's
early life and the terrible price he paid for the aquisition of
his spider-powers. Underneath that wise-cracking youth is a psyche
torn apart by guilt. I liked playing Dr. Strange as a kind of
aloof 'occult' Sherlock Holmes. I enjoyed throwing in all that
'Dr Who' type of esoteric theorising about the structure of 'illogical-magickal'
systems, etc. It's fun to write these absurdist sequences.
Also, the narrative has a pretty loose structure, so that I could
be playful or serious whenever the story demanded it. For example,
the film Road Warrior utilised a very fast-paced 'pile-driver'
narrative but veered from a disturbingly realistic rape
scene to a cartooney 'Chuck Jones' sequence (fingers lopped off
by a steel boomerang). I enjoy that freedom of range and tone.
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The
three parts of the comic each have a different feel to them:
The first part of FEVER is in pop-video, rather than filmic
style, and sets everything up. The second episode pushes the
ethereal psychedelia on the visuals of the dimensions. And the
third one brings everything back to earth, with Spider-Man finally
punching somebody -- because after all, it's a Marvel comic
and dramatically, something proactively physical needed to happen
at that point. I tell the story in a fairly loose and surprising
way, so that your reading experience stays unpredictable, but
fun.
A FEVER movie should be co-directed by Tim Burton and David
Lynch and go all-out for the Ditko look.
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Tell
me something about Steve Cook's contribution.
BMc:
Steve
Cook is a digital artist, and can fake and manipulate amazing
photographic effects. His website Alternity hosts a collection
of his bizarre images. He created a lot of the 'photographic'
skies and rainstorms and parched deserts, adding some very nifty
surrealist backgrounds and colour sequences into the comic. His
lettering has a distinctive look too.
Do I detect a certain level of arachnophobia
going on in this work?
BMc:
When
I started the project, I had some basic thoughts about spiders:
I hated running into spider-webs when I was a boy -- having some
big garden spider scurrying across my face was a fairly horrible
experience. And spiders do tend to hang out in bathtub drainholes...
And drains are inter-connected, like arteries in the human body,
all over a city.
Spiders catch flies too, so it seemed a very simple and atavistic
notion for FEVER that Spider-Man should have to catch a fly in
order to survive. And they lay eggs and eat things alive! Cripes,
spiders are pretty damn scary when you think about it. |
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| Peter
Parker: ironic arachnophobe |
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Alluding
to the UK's most beloved master
of the mystic arts, Tommy Cooper |
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First
with Solo and now Fever, I'm really getting to like your playful
use of language as a writer and those very British references.
Sausages, anyone?
BMc:
Most
of what's going on in FEVER will be understood by American audiences,
but I put some British cultural things in there to give it a little
bit of that deep-fried DANDY flavour, a light dusting of a British
Comics' accent.
I
am amused by the differences in "magick" and stage magic. Both
involve conjuring, mystification and enchantment. There is some
fantastic footage (on You Tube) of Tommy Cooper onstage, pulling
all sorts of ridiculous objects from beneath his coat. It's hilariously
funny. I think that he was a kind of "Laughing Saint" in that
there was sometimes a genuine transcendence in his performance.
The creation of joy and light-heartedness is a wonderful gift.
In our western culture we tend to equate tragedy with 'cultural
importance', whereas comedy is seen as the lesser artform. In
comics for example, the 'dark' Batman is considered more important
than the 'pop' Batman.
It's interesting to observe people who cultivate a special 'mystique'
around themselves. It's called 'glamour' in the old meaning of
the word -- to be enchanted
and beguiled. But the ego, that which wants to be seen as 'special',
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is
also a beguiling enchantment -- a mind-story that is lived inside
of for all our lives. What is known as 'self-realization' or
'enlightenment' is the falling away of the core belief in a
separate 'personal self' that is running 'your' life. The life
force is powering everything anyway -- You are not the doer.
The awareness that is reading this right now is actually the
true center. The fuzzy cognizing space that you are looking
out of gives rise to the egoic thought-construct called 'me'
and its subsequent story.
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Simply put: Everything is happening to no-one. An interesting
statistic I read recently is that it takes just 4 generations
before 99.99% percent of all people are totally forgotten by their
culture. The cultivation of celebrity seems a curious use of a
lifespan.
As
for sausages: Tele-Magus Eshter Rantzen once featured a 'talking
dog' on her TV show who barked out what sounded uncannily like
the word, "Sausages." When asked what he'd like for breakfast,
the dog's reply was, "Sausages." When questioned about the nature
of God and reality, the dog responded, "Sausages." The little
dog became a huge sensation in the UK, with builders and cabbies
shouting out "Sausages!" to each other all day long, as in "Hey
Terry, what do you want in your sandwich?" So that's how two talking
animal archetypes ended up in FEVER.
By the way, has anyone ever heard those 60's tape-recordings made
by the deranged UK record producer Joe Meek, of a cat who he claimed
spoke to him? They're on You Tube and are pretty odd. |
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The
Rantzen-referencing Pugly in
a pun-happy page from FEVER |
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That
weird "Harra-Harrah" refrain throughout the series -- where
did it come from?
BMc:
With the Harrah-Harrah
chant, I wanted to create a hypnotic sound in your mind (right
where the 'comic book experience' takes place) that would start
to subconsciously disturb you... A bit like "those damn drums"
in old jungle movies, when the heavily perspiring hero starts
to lose his mind to the incessant throbbing of the tom-toms.
I like how sound effects can create a "noise level" in your
imagination. You can 'hear' them in your mind. The Harrah-Harrah's
were purposely over-repeated to drive you crazy, so you got
to feel directly what Spider-Man is going through in his fever-dream...
Harrah Harrah. Harrah Harrah. Harrah Harrah. I've never really
heard comic creators talk much about the imaginative "sound"
of comics. Will Eisner used 'visual sound' really well. I think
he and Krigstein were terrific.
More
Beatles influences in this too - Strange's pedalo is very Heinz
Edelmann, and when the need for utter nonsense arrives, Strange
uses a "Number 9 incantation" from The White Album's most skipped
track. Any chance of a follow-up; Spider-Man: Dr.Octopus's Garden?
Or Thor: Odin's Silver Hammer?
BMc:
A
big part of Dr. Strange for me is that it was created in the
1960s, which was when I first read it as a boy. So I wanted
to evoke the particular mood of that period by referencing The
Beatles' Yellow Submarine (still an amazingly brilliant animated
film) for it's obvious psychedelic imagery, as well as Revolution
Number 9 to capture its creepy 'occult-Manson' vibe. I recall
I once had a very vivid dream in which John Lennon had not been
murdered and was on stage, finally touring, singing his version
of "Good Night", fully orchestrated. I woke up utterly happy
to have heard it. Isn't it incredible that we can create such
beauty in our dreams?I should also mention that I once met Jack
Kirby in a dream. If Ditko was your weird uncle, Kirby was your
Dad. He winked at me, smiling from across a room, as if to say,
"You son of a gun". It was like he 'got' me... Like he understood
me, one comic book artist to another. It was a powerful dream.
The 'Secret Sun' blog has some great essays on Kirby as a visionary
artist, whose work has stood the test of time. I'd say the post-Marvel
work looks better than ever.
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| Spidey
and The Doc debate metal gig etiquette |
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I
don't think I'm spoiling things by saying that that last page
is a lovely tribute to Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, on a couple of
levels. Is that last panel conclusive proof that Steve Ditko invented
heavy metal?
BMc:
I
had noticed the similar finger positions that both Spider-Man
and Dr. Strange use in the comics when I was a young reader. It
was a huge revelation to me that an artist like Ditko could develop
a style that was distinct from Kirby or Curt Swan, not just by
his designs or how he drew faces, but by his extremely odd finger
postures. When I was getting to the ending, I had the strong feeling
that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko should appear at the end of the
story. They drew themselves into those "How Stan and Steve Create
Spidey" strip features in the comics of that era. I really wanted
to meet them again as they are now, forty-five years later, as
drawings in a Marvel comic. I was very happy when the ending of
the story fell into place.
How does drawing a three-issue series feel
these days? Hard work, or comparatively easy after production
designing movies in Hollyweird?
BMc:
Comics
are the artistic equivalent of digging holes in the road. They
are very hard graft, particularly the drawing. But like a idiot,
I happen to enjoy doing them. It's a beautiful little art form.
Hollywood can be a confounding experience. It took me a while
to realise that Hollywood is a power system. And there, power
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talent. It's a brutal, toxic place and not for the
faint-hearted. But somehow, good things do come out of all the
craziness... Just name ten great movies! I've lived over there
on and off for many years and you have a time when you're briefly
'hot' and that's when you have to go for it.
Speaking of heat, I enjoyed drawing that 'Captain America in
the ice' short tale that Marvel commissioned me a while ago.
I wanted to do a quieter story, using sepia and native designs
without all the 'psychedelic' whiz-bang. It struck me when researching
the Inuits that most of the images I was looking at were in
sepia. It seemed to visually represent the past.
Those little shorts that Ditko did with Stan Lee in the late
50's are amongst his best work. I'd like Marvel to get me to
edit a collection of the best of them, scanned off the actual
printed comics pages, in groovy Chip Kidd style. And a companion
Kirby volume too, thank you very much!
I recently returned to the UK from Los Angeles. I fear the US
economy is about to crumble. The shit and the fan are about
to meet quite soon. America, it seems to me, is now solely being
run for the benefit of the rich, a ruling class of corporate
financial criminals. The political system appears to be extremely
corrupted and the country is falling apart -- The locusts have
eaten all the grain. In the FEVER comic, Manhattan is portrayed
as a hollowed-out Termite City. Only the facade is left standing.
Inside, it's empty, there's nothing left. Spider-Man has fallen
into a weak and passive state under the enchantment of the Spiders.
It's only when his true center is restored (with the intervention
of Dr. Strange, who is versed in the esoteric and understands
the enchantment) that he overthrows The Arachnix and hurls them
into The Abyss.
I was reading up on the Peasant's Revolt that happened in medieval
England, in the early 1300's: Impoverished peasants rose up
against the ruling class and marched on London, lynching many
members of the political ruling class until the King brokered
a deal with them. I think it's an interesting comparison with
what may happen in America.
It's been a very productive period for
you as a comicbook creator. Is this hot streak going to continue?
BMc:
I
hope so. I have some good creator-owned projects that I'd like
to get done. Some sci-fi, a horror thing, a few kid's books
and a couple of idiosyncratic graphic novels are all in various
stages of readiness. A new edition of SWIMINI PURPOSE is something
I'd like to get out there in a few years. It's just a matter
of finding a stable publisher and a decent deal. Which is a
lot harder than it sounds.
Comics are a writer's medium at the moment and all the buzz
and money is generally with the writers. So if you can both
write and draw them, you're better off.
The accepted paradigm that the writers are the main creators
and the artists are mere illustrators of their wondrous visions
doesn't sit well with me. In the world of fine art, painters
are the intellectual equal of writers. In film, directors take
a script and turn it into the actual movie. But in comics, all
the weight is with the writer. I think it's something to do
with the fact that almost all editors come from a literary background
-- with the notable exceptions of Carmine Infantino in the 70's
at DC and Joe Quesada these days at Marvel.
What comics are you enjoying at the moment,
given that you still read them? Any new movies or TV series
that grab you?
BMc:
Yes,
I still read a few, but not as much as I used to. I think I
mentioned elsewhere the peculiar delights of Tobias Tak. But
there doesn't seem to be too many new radical creators ruffling
the pages of my Kooky-Book. I find that 'comics geek' bedwetter
subculture very inward-looking. It doesn't interest me at all...
Comics like Scott Pilgrim are not on my radar. I think that
stuff has already had its day in the sun.
Recently, I watched the TV series Twin Peaks again: It really
did change TV. It certainly gave rise to the X-Files and you
can see its influence on more recent shows like Lost and Mad
Men. David Lynch and Mark Frost touched on the deeper esoteric
forces that run under the shiny surface of America. Aspects
of Twin Peaks were genuinely unsettling -- The Black Lodge,
the Owls in the woods, the backwards language of the little
man and also Bob, the demonic killer who inhabited mirrors and
carpets.
I am very aware of the "hidden in plain sight" nature of esoteric
symbols... they are everywhere, when you start to look. John
Carpenter's film They Live is worth viewing.
I met David Lynch a few times some years ago in LA, when he
was trying to get an animated feature film off the ground. He
was interested in my designs and in understanding the possibilities
of cgi animation. He's definitely the real deal, a genuine artist
and also very humorous. I'd quite like to do a graphic novel
with him.
After viewing all that Lynchian weirdness, I thought Inception
was really disappointing. The folding buildings sequence was
the only thing that really stood out and that was already shown
in the trailer, so the movie, sold as an adventure about dreams,
offered nothing new. The Kubrick-swipe of the 'rotating room'
was surprisingly dull too.
Vertigo Comics are re-releasing The Extremist
by Pete Milligan and Ted McKeever soon. Is Rogan Gosh likely
to follow?
BMc:
I'm
afraid not. All the rights to Rogan Gosh reverted back to us
a few years ago. And at this point, none of the classic Milligan
and McCarthy stories are in print.
Back about twenty years ago, I thought up The Extremist and
it was going to be a new series from me and Pete. A kinky thriller.
I had the basic idea of the title and of a woman who goes into
a restroom, undresses, tapes down her breasts, puts on a black
leather costume and emerges as The Extremist. But I had too
many other work commitments on and I wouldn't have been able
to draw it, so I just gave it to Pete who liked it, to do with
as he pleased. He and Ted developed it into a much stronger
concept. It's a good story and it would make a decent movie.
A real fannish question to end on: Any
chances of seeing your work again in 2000AD?
BMc:
Funny
you should mention that, but there is a Judge Dredd short story
I am working on as we speak. I haven't drawn ol' misery-guts
for about twenty years... It's amazing what you forget. Al Ewing
is scripting from a story I pitched. He's a great talent. I
think he will go far.
To the iso-cubes.
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SPIDER-MAN:
FEVER the trade paperack
is available at comic book stores around the world now
For more information click here |
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